The Celebreality Interview – Ricki Lake

Ricki Lake never predicted that she’d end up on a VH1 reality show, but in a way, having her as the headmistress of this season of Charm School makes complete sense. She comes with 11 years of experience with moderating loudmouths and issue-addled common folk via her eponymous talk show. But before that, she rose to stardom via Hairspray, John Waters’ campy and colorful 1988 hit that wore its tongue proudly in its cheek. The role as headmistress on Charm School is like a convergence of the two worlds: she presides over real, unruly people in the over-the-top atmosphere of reality TV.

Below, the show’s headmistress and executive producer talks about her initial reluctance to become involved with reality TV, how the girls of Charm School won her over, but not before putting her though excruciating grief (“The first three days, I wanted to kill all these girls!”), how she feels about following in Sharon Osbourne’s notorious footsteps, and why being on a VH1 set isn’t very different from being on one run by John Waters.

So, VH1 comes to you with this idea of hosting Charm School. What were your immediate thoughts?

It was a last-minute thing. I think they’d been trying to reach me for a little while and I was like, “I’m not gonna do a reality show.” I’ve never done one, and I’ve been offered a lot in the past and it never appealed to me. But I was really impressed with [51 Minds producers] Cris Abrego and Mark Cronin and the franchises they created. My focus these days has been more producing than acting, and so I wanted to learn what it takes to produce a reality show. I wanted to see how it works, as a fan of reality shows. Charm School‘s focus on giving back also appealed to me, because I do a lot of advocacy stuff these days. It felt like, if I’m gonna do a reality show, this is the one to do.

How familiar with the …Of Love universe were you prior to signing on?

I’m embarrassed to say that I wasn’t very familiar. I finally sat down with them on a Wednesday and I started shooting on a Monday, so it was a quick turnaround. I’d never really seen it. I heard about Sharon Osbourne having an altercation with someone, but other than that, I didn’t know much. I knew about Flavor Flav, but I didn’t even know about the poop. I didn’t know anything! I was in the dark, and this is coming from someone who’s watched Survivor from the beginning. I love reality shows. But in a way, I think this was a blessing in disguise. It was better that I didn’t have any preconceived idea about the girls.

Have you since gone back and familiarized yourself with these women’s antics?

I have. When we finished shooting Charm School, Rock of Love Bus was still airing, so I started watching it on the treadmill. I got so into it. It’s great TV. You cannot argue with the fact that this stuff is so addicting.

Yeah, Rock of Love has a special place in my heart. I would write about that show even if I weren’t paid to do so.

What is it about Rock of Love that appeals to you?

That people are willing to be spectacles on such a large scale fascinates me. It’s like studying extreme human behavior. It’s almost anthropological.

Oh my god, that’s how I describe my talk show. It’s like being a pseudo-anthropologist.

That’s why when they announced you, I said, “She’s perfect for this.” You dealt with loud people who are very vocal about their issues on TV for 11 years. No-brainer.

Yeah, this is definitely an opportunity to go back to my roots.

I also think it’s interesting that with The Business of Being Born, you sort of put your stake in pop culture as a mother, and you’re in a maternal role on Charm School, as well.

Maybe I’m not in touch with how old I am, but I felt more of a sisterly vibe with the girls than a motherly one. I think Sharon was more of a maternal figure. But I am 40, so I guess in some cases, I could be these girls’ mothers. Like Ashley, she’s 22.

And I think she was about 18 when she had her kid, so that would make even more sense. This first episode was so crazy. Was there any point where you asked yourself, “What have I gotten myself into?”

Yes. The first three days, I wanted to kill all these girls. They were so out of control. They were so hot-headed and not listening and making our days longer than long. It was impossible to control them. I can’t explain the exact moment, but then there was a switch. I not only liked them, but I cared for them, I rooted for them, I didn’t want to expel them. I wanted to keep them all. It got really hard: who am I gonna let go? All of them have redeeming qualities. We can see ourselves in them, and I think that’s why these shows work. As outrageous as they are, and as big as their problems can be, people need to see people they can relate to on some level. I related to them in a lot of ways. A lot of them are single mothers. Some have had abuse in their lives. So, they did get under my skin and I did take my day job home with me at night. I worried about them.

Was the first three days of this shoot the hardest thing you ever faced in your career?

This was one of my hardest jobs. I thought it was going to be a walk in the park, since I’d done my talk show 2,100 times. I thought, “This is an extension of my old show. Hello! I can do that with my eyes closed.” But this is really different, producing a reality show, where the cameras are present 24/7. It’s not one hour on a stage, talking about one specific topic. It’s life happening. Stuff switches on a dime.

Were you ever scared for your safety, considering how physical these girls can be?

No, no. Never. Maybe it’s naïve, but even on my talk show, I always felt that I was protected. Not only by the people around me, but there was a level of respect people had for me. I guess a prime example of not taking that to bed with you was how Sharon Osbourne blew that out of the window.

Since you’ve mentioned it a few times, what was your take on that fight?

I love Sharon Osbourne. She is exactly who she is. I saw her recently at a birthday party and was like, “Oh my God. We both had this experience!” We had a moment. Sharon says what she thinks and she does what she intends to do. She’s one of a kind. I’m not justifying any behavior or action, but…I have a different style. That’s not to say I’m better in any way. Maybe Sharon is a better host than I am. She doesn’t mince words, and I think I have a gentler approach.

It’s funny that you say that because when Bubbles was in your office talking about wanting to do cartoon voices, for example, it seemed like you were being very polite.

You don’t have to push it. It’s right there. I didn’t need to say a comment that would be degrading. I wanted to be respectful. Besides, Bubbles is entertaining. I loved interviewing her.

What do you think about the contradiction at the heart of the Charm School franchise? Up to the point of “enrollment,” the girls have been rewarded for bad behavior via airtime (the greatest reward of all), but on this show, they have to redefine themselves.

As a producer, you want these girls to struggle and misbehave. You need to have that element. You want them to hang from the cliff, but you don’t want them to fall off. It’s totally a balance. I give major props to the guys at 51 Minds. It’s such an interesting vantage point.

How involved are you with the editing/packaging of the finished product?

Not at all.

So, are you scared about falling prey to the editor’s knife?

Mmm. What’s weird for me is that I’m Ricki Lake the person, and I’m also Ricki Lake the headmistress. I’m not really a hard-ass. I’m not really an in-your-face know-it-all. I can be, I have an opinion, but that’s not my natural state. You see these images of me looking like a ball-buster. It’s my name, it’s me, and I have a following and a persona, so it’s just about riding that line carefully.

I know that the nature of this show is fairly serious, but was filming it at all comparable to being on a John Waters set? Just the whole larger-than-life aspect?

At one point, I made the comment, “If John Waters could see what I’m doing now…” He created Frankenstein with me. He was shocked when he saw me doing the talk show. And then I had him come to The Business of Being Born premiere and he was like, “Oh my god, I’ve seen more vaginas in the last hour than ever in my life!” If he sees this show, he’s going to be like, “Oh my god, what is she doing now?” I think he’d be proud.

I saw some Q&A with him where someone asked him about reality TV and he said he doesn’t watch.

He doesn’t watch TV for the most part.

But it’s disappointing, because reality TV is the No. 1 source of camp in American pop culture. He’s missing out.

That’s very true. I’ll pass it along.

Throughout your career, stretching back to those John Waters movies, you’ve been the sane person in the midst of craziness.

Yeah, and I credit John Waters with that. I made Hairspray when I was 18. It was my first big job and it made me famous. He pulled me aside and said, “I want you to stay humble. I want you to always stay true to yourself. If you read the good press and believe it, you’re gonna have to believe the bad stuff.” It was just this pep talk about this new world. And we’re talking 1988. That’s a long time ago, and certainly with the Internet, it’s pretty hard to keep your head on straight and not lose touch. I think John’s been a great mentor for me. I’m appreciative of all the opportunities I’ve had, and I love that I get to have nine lives, like a cat, in this career. I’ve gotten to do so many different things and that’s what keeps it fresh for me. I love putting a notch on my belt, and Charm School is another thing I can add to the list of accomplishments.

Something that people took exception to was when you said that directing porn couldn’t be empowering during the Charm School premiere.

It’s a personal opinion. I can admit being wrong if push comes to shove. Maybe it is empowering to people. I’ve never directed porn, so until I do, I’ll retract my statement.

After this experience, do you think there’s more reality TV in store for you?

It’s hard to say. I’m only signed for one season.

But would you be open to it?

I’m not gonna say no to anything. I’m always open. I feel like at this point, anything can happen to me. I never thought I’d be the headmistress of Charm School nor did I think I’d have a talk show for 11 years nor did I think I’d make a documentary that would really make a big statement and a big stink with the medical system nor did I think I’d get down to 125 lbs. All of these are pretty unbelievable things that I never would have predicted.

Speaking of predictions, can you give us any insight on what to expect from this season?

Well, I think it was brilliant to combine the casts of Rock of Love and Real Chance of Love. The cliques that have formed, like the Blondourage, are obvious. But it does change up. You won’t believe who comes to this person’s aid, and who apologizes and makes amends with that one. Really, heavy s*** goes down. It’s surprising, entertaining and inspiring stuff.

As one of her nine lives, Ricki’s an author. Your Best Birth is in stores now. To accompany the book, there is a social-networking site, My Best Birth. Check it out.

Related content
Charm School with Ricki Lake show page
Charm School videos and extras