Licensed marriage and family therapist Jill Vermeire was on hand during the filming of Sex Rehab with Dr. Drew, bringing her clinical expertise to the world of reality TV. She’s agreed to lend us her perspective on the show’s shoot, as well as the rehabilitation of the cast. Below, Jill talks about the show’s sixth episode: the confrontation between Kari Ann and Selma the tech, the resulting dismissal of Selma, the visit from Phil’s father and Kendra’s relapse.
Any thoughts on the Kari Ann/Selma confrontation?
Drew and I were finishing up group, and one of the producers told us that Kari Ann threw something at Selma, or hit her or something. So Drew and I were like, “Well then she has to go. Violence is not accepted.” We were ready to go in and kick Kari Ann out, and one of the other producers was like, “You know, you might really want to watch the tape first, because it didn’t happen the way it’s being presented to you.” So we watched the tape, and my whole body froze and I was so shocked by what I saw. From what I saw, Selma was sort of antagonizing Kari Ann. When Kari Ann moved passed her, grabbed her notebook, and was walking back, she sort of flipped her arm, which hit the vase, which fell on the floor. She didn’t pick it up and throw it. And that’s when Selma grabbed the back of Kari Ann’s hair. As frustrating as Kari Ann’s behavior can be, when you are a professional working in a treatment facility, you never ever put your hands on a patient. You just don’t. There is a three point restraint that you can get training in if you’re being threatened, and you need to contain somebody physically. But it’s rare that that happens, and Selma does not have that training. Selma, unfortunately, let her feelings get the better of her, and overtake her for that moment. There were two hard things about that. Number One is that we had to let Selma go, because it’s unacceptable. And it’s unfortunate for Selma, because she’s not really an experienced tech. She was brought on as somebody who was familiar with recovery and is a strong woman, as far as holding boundaries. But that’s really not her everyday job. So she didn’t have the training that would have been helpful. The second hard thing about it is there was a lot of trauma for Kari Ann in her childhood where her mother would literally pull her hair and drag her in an abusive way. So to see the re-traumatization, and to see Selma replay that trauma, without even knowing she was doing that, without knowing Kari Ann’s history of abuse by being grabbed at her hair, I saw it in that moment, and Kari Ann’s face had a quick trauma reaction. It was very shocking for her. But because Kari Ann is such a survivor, and has learned to live with that kind of experience or abuse or behavior, she quickly regrouped and put on her defenses and it didn’t phase her. When I saw the tape, it was very clear that, unfortunately, it was Selma who was going to have to be let go. And the whole situation was really difficult and unfortunate. It was upsetting for all of us, because we all really liked Selma. I really liked her, but also Kari Ann is so wounded and has so much trauma that it was really upsetting for me. I’m even kind of shaking still when I talk about it, because Kari Ann really came around. She really did come around, and after some of the work that we did that you’re probably never going to see, I had a real appreciation and affinity to Kari Ann. The whole thing basically sucked.
[Edited: Just in case you missed it, Jill left this statement in the comments section of this post:
For the record: The video we were shown was from a different angle and you could not see that she had picked up the vase. From the angle we saw it really did look as though she knocked it over. The blog interviewer talks to me before the episode airs, so I haven’t seen the episode yet when I do the interview (plus, I have to recall events that happened back in April when we filmed the show). Now, after seeing the episode and the new camera angle, it is clear she did throw the vase, and for that mistake I sincerely apologize. However, it is still unacceptable for a staff member to antagonize or put their hands on a patient, no matter how argumentative and frustrating they are. To watch Selma go was very very difficult. She was well liked by all of us. To assuage any concerns: Selma and I are good. We’ve mended any rifts that existed. I hope this clears things up about erroneous statements made.]
Of course, this is not only another chapter of drama at the facility, but it leads to Kari Ann being even more alienated from the group, when they blame her for Selma’s firing.
They go on for the attack when they find out, but then Drew and I went out and talked to the group. People are so quick to jump to conclusions, and you can’t assume that you have the entire story. You always have to remember that there are many sides to every story, and for me as a therapist, that’s how I always work. I’m working with the person in front of me, but I’m aware that there are many other people that have different opinions or different experiences of how something happened. That’s just part of being a human being. It happens all the time in real rehab settings, it happens all the time. You put a bunch of addicts together and they have to live together in this super contained environment with their own personal demons, and their withdrawals, and their propensity for drama and chaos. You can’t escape rehab without experiencing the drama.
When Shelly’s brought in as Selma’s replacement, everyone’s concerned that she’s not a sex or love addict, and that she doesn’t have a background in that sort of treatment. Was that a concern for you?
No, because the role that a tech has is to contain, to have boundaries, to run a tight ship, to make sure they’re up and at ‘em, to make sure they’re following the rules, to make sure their meds are in compliance, to monitor their behaviors in between therapy and group and activities. They’re not there to be the therapist. That’s my job. So it does not matter that she doesn’t have the experience. Shelly has experience with recovery and with addiction in general, and the umbrella of addiction, no matter what it is, involves obsession, and intensity, and instant gratification, and a spiritual malady, a physical allergy. So she speaks the language, and Shelly runs a tight ship. And, the great thing about Shelly is that this really is what she does for a living. She knows how to conduct a treatment floor. She knows how to run one, because that’s what she does. So I was thrilled that she was available to come in. Shelly’s awesome. She came in literally within an hour or two of seeing the tape and making the decision to let Selma go. We couldn’t just let her go without having someone come in to run the floor. By law, you have to have somebody there. So it was a really quick turn over. We saw the tape, called Shelly, Shelly came right over and within an hour or two, the transition had been made.
Any thoughts on Phil and the session with his father?
It was so powerful! Phil’s another one that I really bonded with, and you’re not going to see it. There’s a lot of stuff that Phil would only talk to me about off camera. He and I really had a good rapport, and he really trusted me, and he really opened up to me about so many things. But about the stuff that you did see with his dad and his childhood and the grief letter: it takes a lot of courage to write a grief letter because it’s really painful and it’s really sad. The stuff with his mom was still so raw and close to his heart. He kind of fought us on having his dad come out for a while because it just makes things so real for him. But I can’t tell you, his dad is the coolest guy ever. It’s so great when you can bring family members in, because like I said earlier, there are so many sides to the story, and so many different perspectives. So when you have the chance to bring in a family member, not only is it helpful for us as a treatment team, but it’s also helpful for the patient, because in his mind, that really was the truth: it was too painful to talk about with his dad, and his dad just needed to move on, and it wasn’t a subject that could ever be broached. And then you bring dad in, and he contradicts all of it, “No! I’ve always wanted to talk to you about it, but I didn’t know how!” Or, “I was too afraid to, or I thought you didn’t want to.” It was so powerful and so healing to start that process. And the courage Phil had in letting us bring his dad out, and then the intense amount of courage he had to write the letter, and then read the letter…Phil did some amazing, amazing work.
And then the last big point is that Kendra admits that she relapsed.
She masturbated, and it was really cool that she admitted it. The thing is, we’re not there to make people feel bad if they relapse. It’s part of the process. It’s the willingness to be honest about it and be accountable for it. That’s the idea. Kendra admitting it was a huge step in her recovery. That’s when you know treatment’s working, because she had bonded with her peers, she sees other people working on their program, and a big part of the program is honesty. They say, “How do you stay sober? H.O.W: Honesty, openness and willingness.” And she was all of those things. And all I can do in those situations is give them a high five. That’s a success in my book if you can admit it. I have really high hopes for Kendra. I’m still working with her, and she’s trying real hard. It makes me happy. I’m very proud of my kids. [Laughs]
Any thoughts on your experience with the show in general, at this point in airing?
I read the message boards sometimes, and one of the things that’s really frustrating is that people don’t understand editing. There’s so much you don’t see. I mean, we were there 15 hours a day for 21 days straight. Every time you see a therapy session or a group session, like the session about the rape situation, two episodes ago, that was a two-hour group and it was really intense. Also in that episode, during the session with Kari Ann, that was the one hundredth billionth session we had, and we finally were connecting. I wanted desperately to connect with her, and her smile is such a defense. Asking someone to hold down her mouth instead of smiling is actually a technique I learned at the Meadows, which is a very high-end treatment facility. It is a therapeutic technique that has been proven to work, and in no way was Kari Ann shamed or dismissed. In fact, that session was a really long session. What people see is so so so sooooo brief, compared to what we were really doing. To comments saying “No one’s asking Kari Ann if she’s really a sex addict,” it’s just like, “We were asking her that 20 times a day!” People think that we weren’t doing these things, but we did. You’re just not seeing it. You’re only seeing a very, very quick little clip of it. You’re not seeing the entire session, and these are all techniques that I’ve learned from some of the biggest names in the field of treatment. I’ve had some mentors that are really celebrities in my world, the therapeutic world. And part of me wants to go on the boards and sort of defend myself, but then I realize that it’s not their fault. They’re not seeing everything. They just need to understand that there’s a lot of editing!
Check out screen shots from this episode in the gallery below:
Learn more about Jill and sex addiction at her website, and follow her on Twitter.
Related content
Sex Rehab with Dr. Drew show page
Sex Rehab with Dr. Drew videos and extras
90 responses to to Talking Sex Rehab With Jill Vermeire – Episode 6
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Selma totally got the raw end of the deal. Kari Ann the has-been skank tried to hit her with a vase. Come on. Get real. That %`($_!^^_+`^@~#!@ totally deserved to get her cheap weave yanked on. Dr. Drew and his staff totally lied to make Selma out to be the one in the wrong. Hey, how about we have somebody hurl a blunt object at him and see what he does. Oh, while we’re at it, let’s wing one at Jill. Kari Ann gets away with anything. Is she sleeping with the staff memembers? Seriously. While else would they keep her around? This is such a ratings ploy. She’s not there to get help. For some reason, though, she gets to stick around.
Selma, if you’re reading this, if you don’t have an attorney yet, you need to get one. You were attacked at work. Seriously, you need to get some legal representation and sue the pants of these mo-fos.
REALLY? You are trying to say that Kari-Ann accidentally flicked the vase off the table?? The woman picked it up and THREW IT at Selma. Please stop making excuses for that piece of sh*t Kari-Ann! Ugh, what a petulant waste of space she is.
Sorry Jill but I cannot accept this answer. It seems that KA gets away with a lot because she is a patient. I also saw a race issue with this episode because a phrase ‘ghetto’ place came in and i noticed that KA has had an issue with selma since day one. KA needs to go. she isnt ready to be in rehab and unfortunately not accepting all that has happened. she hasnt hit bottom and judging by all this the camera crew was also at fault. KA had the cameras on top of her and she had selma trying to do her job and the camera crew on her back. she may have relapsed because she probably had flashbacks of being in a porno shoot. So good job on that one.
Interesting that you admit that Selma was not given all the training and tools required to effectively do her job. But, she suffered the consequences of the facilities’ poor managment and skills training. She should have never been in that position without the properly training to handle various situations, specifically combative patients. You saw Kari Ann was combative from the start and allowed Selma to constantly have to deal with her. Then when something inevidently happens you twist the story you tell the other patients. Wow, you guys did a bigger disservice to Selma than I originally thought. You should really be ashamed.
The counselors’ patience with KA is living proof of their professionalism and commitment to truly help others overcome addictions. I wish that hadn’t happened to Selma, but she knew immediately that she had broken the rules. I totally agree that KA is an insufferable, horrible wreck of a human, but the counselors see through all the awfulness to the traumatized core, and they’re trying to be patient and wait for her to be receptive to the treatment. Which, quite frankly, may never happen, but they have to try. That’s their job.
What gets me is this spoiled little scab got a woman fired . This is her life not some game . I put the majority of this on Drew . He should have kicked her out along time ago . He allowed this to happen . Kari Ann is on the show to be famous and not get help .
I am so glad that Drew allowed this little _`&#(@(~!@())#!#* to screw with someones real life . Drew is as much of a _`&#(@(~!@())#!#* as Drew is . Its not funny . Selma .. you should have beat this _`&#(@(~!@())#!#* es +%!*($#+*~`~&!& PS )+)_(#`((*$“+@! off drew .
I agree. Kari Ann is just a prejudice person; otherwise, why would she call the ladies “ghetto”. What she really didn’t know is these so called “ghetto” women will not tolerate HER violence since she has been soooooooo persecuted violently in her life. Kari Ann started it and she should be punished! SHE was wrong and SHE should have been dismissed! Selma should have reacted and she should be brought back to the show. Frankly I don’t understand why she cared so much for Kari Ann to go to group anyway. Let her sorry butt pay the money and not benefit from the treatment. She is a spoiled brat. I am not watching the show anymore.
I understand about a staff member not putting their hands on a patient however Kari Ann has never been anything but rude and disrespectful to EVERYONE at the center. If anyone throws a vase at me (or it sounds like many others commenting) one would react. She plays dumb and wants to control everyone. Everyone else wants help and is really trying and hurting. Why does the world have to adjust to Kari Ann? I know she has been abused but so has everyone else. When she threw the vase at Selma she could have really HURT Selma. Who would have been let go then? She threw the vase AT Selma not at the wall. Selma is going to need therapy after taking all the abuse from Keri Ann. I am really upset that the show sees this as Selmas fault.
Dr. Drew,
As I write I am watching tonight’s episode. It’s late and I’m livid about what I witnessed between Selma & Kari Ann. I thoroughly feel that the termination of Selma was completely unfair. Although Selma may have been persistent in trying to get Kari Ann to group; this has been a continuous struggle since the show began. And from what I’ve seen, you seem to constantly overlook her actions or to make her accountable for her despicable, disrespectful, diva behavior, not only towards the staff, but the other clients as well. Although I agree that Selma should have had more restraint before reacting in a physical manner towards Kari Ann; at the same time, the way it appeared to me, was that Kari Ann purposely threw the vase with the intent of hitting Selma. Now I’m generally not one to deal with “what if’s”, but what if that vase had hit Selma and resulted in her being seriously injured, wherein, she would have never gotten the chance to pull Kari Ann’s hair. I would say then, the entire situation would have been mote and Kari Ann would have been at fault and therefore discharged, I hope! As someone that recently got out of rehab a few months ago, a similiar incident happended where I was a client and both parties were terminated. I attended a well respected facility and the rules were made very clear what the consequences were for both staff and clients, in that there should be repercussions for each person. Also, I am extremely disgusted that you didn’t even call Kari Ann on her RACIST remark about being around as she put it “ghetto people”! It was obvious that she was refering to Selma and the other black Administrator. What will you do when she calls the black female client the “N” word, are you going to overlook and coddle her then too? I’m appalled that you have allowed her to totally disregard all the rules since she’s been there. Although each person is ultimately responsible for their own recovery, having a disruptive, self-absorbed person in the midst is very disruptive to others recovery. This is something that I personally experienced when I was at rehab and initially, it caused me to shut down and unable to concentrate or focus on my recovery. I eventually found a way to block out the distractions, but it was difficult. So despite what you may think, someone else’s continuous negative behavior does have an impact. I understand and can emphathize with issues Kari Ann may have experienced in her life, but these things aren’t exclusive to her and it SHOULD NOT excuse her behavior. It’s not my intent to sound hostile, but if I were Selma, I would certainly look into a law suit for wrongful termination. I’m %_@+^%$&)%)&*+@ uming you hired her in the first place to do the job she was qualified to do, and you admittedly stated that you were pleased with the job she was doing. So in my opinion, she was trying to do the best she could dealing with a difficult person in getting Kari Ann to groups etc., as frustrating as it was. Kari Ann was constantly berating her and foul mouthed and she clearly has entitlement issues that also need to be addressed. Overall, I’m extremely disappointed how the whole situation transpired and I will now tune out from watching the show any longer. As a professional, you should seriously rethink your polices and make some modications that apply to not only staff, but the clients as well right from the onset. You waited much too long to enforce the rules for Kari Ann, which I’m sure she won’t abide by anyway, thus, more time taken up catering to her every whim and distracting from the rest of the clients.
An extremely disappointed viewer!!
Hey VH1, Isnt it weird that you ran an add for trojan masturbation products during Sex Rehab? Isn’t that a little counter productive? I wouldn’t do that again. That double standard is awful. Hopefully this doesn’t cause you to lose business, but really? Can’t you guys figure this out? If people are struggling with sexual issues, especially chronic masturbation, do we have to encourage similar behavior, by running adds for the trojan buzz or any sexual products for that matter? I hope your producers realize that condemning sexual addictions and then selling products that cause sexual addictions i wrong. Hopefully somebody reads this and something gets changed.
From day one no one corrected Kariann behavior. So you think it is okay to treat Selma as if she was a servant. She cursed at this woman have slammed doors in her face. I did not see you or Dr. Drew do one thing you did not get another counslor to deal with Kariann. Plus she was being racist and if she has this many prolbems than that show is not for her. Am glad she will be kick off the show I will make sure I am watching. She has caused nothing but havoc. Everyone else is trying to get themselves together she is being treated like a baby. Please try that with someone who really cares, beacause I don’t I am very disappointed with you and Dr. Drew this situation should have never happen. How do you know the rest of the group is getting better you don’t because you have this distraction on consent basis. Am sick of her.
THE racism y the patient on SELMA WAS ALLOWED TO GO ON WAY TO LONG WITHOUT CONSEQUENCES FOR THE PATIENT AND SUPPORT OF THE STAFF. Did. Dr. Drew and his administrator and that _~*__`!*%~&&`~* istant not realize that all of that illegal behavior inflicted upon Selma aired. I am disappointed with Dr. Drew for not taking a stand and for fostering that unhealthy situation that obviously damaged Selma and put her in stress. THE DRIVING MISS. DAISY ATTITUDE THAT THIS PATIENT ALLOWED TO TAKE WITH SELMA WAS REVOLTING AND WENT UNCHECKED YET DUALLY NOTED. EVEN THE CRIMINALLY INSANE ARE HELD TO A STANDARD OF ACCOUNTABILITY AND RESPONSIBILITY. SELMA FIRED. SELMA WAS AND HAD BEEN THE VICTIM. WHY WAS THE RACIAL, SEXUAL, PHYSICAL, AND ECONOMIC HARASSMENT SELMA ENDURED ALLOWED GOING UNCHECKED AND THAN WHEN SHE AS A HUMAN BEING BARELY RESPONDED SHE WAS FIRED? THAT SEX GROUP HAS SOME NICE GOALS AND MISSION BUT THE ILLEGAL AND DYSFUNCTION BEHAVIOR SELMA EXPERIENCED WAS HORRENDOUS THAN YOU ADD INSULT BE FIRING HER? DR. DREW AND THE ADMINISTRATOR WHO ALLOWED SELMA TO BE RACIALLY AND SEXUALLY HARASSMENT AND STRESSED BY THE PATIENT FOR A VERY LONG PERIOD SHOULD HAVE BEEN HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR ALLOWING THE MALTREATMENT AND ILLEGAL BEHAVIOR TO BE DONE TO SELMA. With the percentage of people in society impacted by friends, family and relatives who work or deal with being incarcerated, battling addiction, in therapy for numerous reasons or even dealing with violence in the schools. People in society today deal with all sorts of issues. The public at large is aware that prisoners would have unruly behavior and language at staff, juvenile delinquents have unruly behavior and language in treatment, or group homes, ill patients in chronic care can often have unruly behavior and language. The list goes on and on: the brain injured population, add/adhd, unruly students in general. My point is that I was taken back at the lack of support given to Selma throughout the show by the other staff. Clearly, the patient was not acting like a 13 year old as Dr. Drew suggested and Selma behavior was nowhere near, what this woman experienced as a child. The patients an ignorant racist and a contract should had been made or the treatment centers rules at least should had been made to be adhere to by this patient or she should had been expelled long ago. The patient appeared to gain a warped manipulated sense of power that she will later in life find useless and the need to address her need to victimize and abuse others. It was ill how she got support in abusing and manipulating the staff, the program, and Selma. She was only allowed to do so because staff must have really felt that Selma was not human along the racist lines of being an animal -expected to take all that was spewed on her was fine but with no correction, no validation of what was going on to Selma. You lost this viewer. I will no longer watch the program because of the chattel treatment Selma experienced. First, the rocker girl tried and other patients tried to _~*__`!*%~&&`~* ist with how Selma was allowed to be illegally and dysfunctional treated to know avail. Human respect and decency is a requirement in all treatment facilities with all populations with the expectation of mental and emotionally ill patients acting irrationally. It was clear that Dr. Drew _~*__`!*%~&&`~* istant Jill and Dr. Drew allowed this patient dysfunctional, hostile, verbally, emotionally abusive behavior and language laced with blatant racial epitaphs, and racism to continue because the staff thought the patients was funny and cute. Again, in many careers staff deals with such behaviors from recovering addicts and the sort. At every point, they supported and allowed Selma to be illegally harassed to the point where the patient noncompliance warranted for the patient to leave. Nevertheless, why were Selma and the program put to the side while the patient disrespected staff? We all saw the videos, and it looked real racist. Even from allowing, the patient to tell Selma to work out of her capacity and deliver her a drink was as a scene from Roots and Driving Miss. Daisy. The final insult to my eyes was when Dr. Drews _~*__`!*%~&&`~* istant explained to the group that Selma had to go because she did something wrong to the patient when the patient herself and the camera revealed that patient continued to be wrong and the staff (not the other patients) the staff continued and supported this illegal behavior under the guise of withdrawal. NO even the brain injured has behavior modification and prisoners have tickets to hold them accountable and modify their behavior to the program structure. I am disappointed in Dr. Drew and not surprised with his _~*__`!*%~&&`~* istants changing and belittling what the patient did as Dr. Drew’s staff laughed all season at the ill patients’ racism. The patient said they were wrong, and THE PATIENT had been wrong. MY POINT: Her coworkers DID not SUPPORT SELMA, they had not programming, and policies in place to protect their staff from this illegal, sick, and immoral behavior, but her coworker validated the bullying environment as okay, which screams: lawsuit. I WORKED IN A DRUG REHAB IN COLLEGE IN CASS CORRIDOR AT MARINERS INN IN DETROIT, I WORKED IN LEVEL 5 PRISON, I WORKED WITH THE BRAIN INJURED AND THESE AS WELL AS MANY OTHER POPULATIONS ARE STILL ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR BEHAVIOR AND PARTICIPATING IN TREATMENT TO REMAIN AND IN NOT DOING SO THEY FACE CONSEQUENCES. That PATIENT NEVER FACED CONSEQUENCES, IT WAS STRANGE HOW DR. DREWS _~*__`!*%~&&`~* ISTANT laughs and SNICKERED throughout THE PATIENTS DISRESPECTFUL AND RACIST COMMENTS AND TWISTED THE INCIDENT THAT WAS TAPED AND MADE IT SELMA FAULT. AS I SAID, EARLIER SELMA NEVER HAD STAFF SUPPORT BECAUSE THE STAFF DID NOT CARRY OUT THEIR JOB DUTIES TO THE PATIENTS.
They left out the picture of KA picking up the vase, but we all saw the truth.
I just watched the show where Selma got dismissed and was very dissatisfied about the outcome. Seems to me that the Administration, Cast/crew and Dr Drew threw Selma under the bus, When is it alright that a patient can throw things at the staff? Its bad enough that the staff is verbally abused, ordered around as if they work for the (KariAnn) patients, not all of them this refers to Ms Thing (Ms Thing) who was the cause of Selma lossing her job. In my opinion its unfair that (Kari Ann ) Ms Thing wasn’t sent home for trying to hurt an employee. What are you saying to your employee’s that its okay for the patient to do whatever they want to do and not worry about retaliation?
Wow, its amazing that you didn’t stand by your employee due to the fact that the patient was wrong, insulting with the comment about ghetto people, What’s that about?
I normally don’t bother to write in to express my opinion, or do blogs but this incident warnted me to say something.
I hope that Selma will continue to hold her head up high, get a job that will appreciate her hard work and stand by her rather then lie to the group about what really happened. I would love to say nasty thing about (Kari Ann( Ms Thing, but its obvious that she really need help, not cuddling to her every whim, she not a little girl, she not a princess. She got MAJOR issue that need to be addressed without being abusive to those who’s trying to help her and if she unable to be an Adult then maybe Ms Thing (KariAnn) not ready for the help, and your wasting your time, energy with someone who clearly don’t want to follow the rule. Isn’t that going rogue?
If she don’t get it together unfortunately we all can see what her future will be and its not a pretty site.
Jill, I really don’t think you have any idea what you are talking about, and I have lost any respect of your being a professional with the ability to see through a patient’s BS. You lied to the patients about what happened, and you have perpetuated the practice to create a damaging ‘black person attacks’ image so that the other patients would stop ganging up on Kari Ann. You and Dr. Drew are hacks and are using the situations of seriously ill people for ratings. Selma was let go because you realized your failure as a staff member to reach out to her. In your post, you stated that one of Selma’s qualities as a tech was her strength; just because she is strong does not mean she should have been put in a situation with a psychotic and hopeless person like Kari Ann. I find you to be a poor example of a leader and you failed to support Selma in this situation. Your explanation and your words are empty and full of lies. I don’t believe anything you and Dr. Drew do or say. Selma was thrown under the bus, and you are too stuck up in your `+~_(*(#!+$*&!@ le and education to see through Kari Ann’s bullsh!t.
There are many rules that health professionals must hold to in this field. These rules and procedures are held to safe guard the patient in all fashions. These procedures expand from confidentiality agreements to only using the three point restraint technique with patients. Any health professional, from a nurse to a doctor to an EMT to a psychologist and even a floor manager, is required to not lay a hand on a patient in this manner. Whether it is in self defense or not, Kendra does in fact have what warrants a case against Selma for breaking this procedure. Regardless of the patients actions- a health professional is only warranted to restrain a person in the three point restraint technique. This is true for a five year old child flying off the handle, a bodybuilder over 300 lbs in a rage, or even a young woman who is shoving lamps around. Many people will see Selma’s actions as self defense but in this field doing anything but the restraint procedure, that all health professionals are required to know, makes them liable for termination as well as legal action.
Selma did NOT get the raw end. You can NEVER put your hands on a patient, esp in this type of setting. yes, Kari Ann is a pain in the `!!))@#`#+!$)$~ and was also wrong, but she is the patient. Selma needed to be let go.
I don’t blog but I had to say something about this. Kari Ann is a stupid young acting )#`&$(+_(%@`%$%($ She needs attention all the time. She thinks she can just do want she wants, she is no better then anyone else. Her !(!@@^**#~!^$)* is not made out of gold. Selma did the right thing,it’s just sad that she was let go, but she was also attacked. Kari Ann is lucky I wasn’t selma because i would taken that vase and shoved it up her !(!@@^**#~!^$)* I would have should her want ghetto is. Kari Ann just need to leave the show so everyone else can get the proper help they need. Selma keep your head up you will get something better.
I can’t believe a professional person such as you Jill would lie about this situation. Kariann has been a pain for Selma and racial to her since the beginning. It is so obvious that Kariann turned and picked up the vase and threw it at her. It is in someone’s nature to defend themselves. I am apalled at this. What video were you watching. A complete lie!!! Kariann even said she “threw it at the wall”. What if Selma was hurt? I hope she gets a lawyer. I have never been so disgraced about something in a show. Kariann should be in a mental ward and charges for attemped battery to Selma should ge charged against Kariann. By the way, I am highly educated with a Master’s degree and have been in rehab for depression. I am not just anyone rambling.
Please rewatch that tape and not lie for Kariann’s sake!
I don’t blog either but how can you lie about what happenned? You need to watch the video again. That vase was purposly thrown at Selma. She could have been really hurt. Kariann has mental issues and should have been taken out of rehab earlier when she is ready for help.
Jill at least owes Selma an apology. Dr Drew you broke my heart man. I though u were stand up. But U are a sell out :(
It seems to me that Kari Ann was (in a weird way) kind of rewarded (Selma’s gone) for acting like an immature little kid. She acts like a spoiled brat and then wonders why people don’t like her.
Kari Ann, do you realize that if you’d have just gotten your lazy a$$ up and been wherever you were supposed to be that morning, none of that stuff would’ve happened….simple as that. Now some lady is out of a job because she wasn’t going to allow herself to be treated like crap by this little twit. I can certainly empathize with KA with regard to the abusive childhood but she makes it extremely hard for people to care about her when she acts like a total a-hole.
I Hate to see selma go because she was the only one who gave KA a Real REALITY check.. I do agree Selma should use her words and not her hands… However, KA is nothing other then a SPOILED BRAT that stomps around to get the attention she wants and needs to fill her addiction… The Rehab is her STAGE and she LOVES for people to watch her… Hello, thats what she DID “past tense” for a living!!!!!! However,I do feel KA needs help but more on a mental Health Reality show and Not SEX REHAB! The Mental Problem she has now needs to be fixed First then she can try the SEX REHAB…… Also, you may need to help her with her Denial Problem.. She did throw the VASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I do not like Kari Ann. Do I think Selma should have been fired…No. Now who’s going to get juice for Queen Kari Ann. That ~(@&$!`!_~@`#_$$) need to be brought back to reality. She said she’s tired of ghetto people. I think she may be a lil racist. It was okay when she was bringing your #_*$`^&$`~@)(~$ juice and )**_+#_&_+$%*_!%
Selma got screwed. Kari Ann was playing tough girl and if Selma was going to get fired over a slight hair pull then they should’ve let her kick Kari Ann’s $**!_)^$))*%!+* Kari Ann has no class and doesn’t really wish to heal like the rest of the group.
I watched, and re-watched the episode twice so far. Here are my two cents.
First of all, I felt for both Selma and Kari Ann.
It stung that Selma’s employment was terminated, because I liked her too. However, Selma was well aware of the policies surrounding her employment; she crossed a line in regard to policy.
As to her lack of training, that is a question mark for me, but that’s hardly an isolated case. There are plenty facilities that are under-staffed or have staff that are under-trained. Regardless, I wish Selma well.
Second, while I find Kari Ann’s behavior inappropriate, you must keep in mind that this is one very badly traumatized young woman. Does this excuse her behavior? No. Does it explain it? Yes.
This group represents a broad range of men and women whose responses to treatment run the gamut. After the incident took place, both Drew and Jill confronted Kari Ann and made their position clear: you have one more chance, you break a rule again, you’re out. So, Kari Ann did not get off Scott-free. I get the feeling that Selma’s successor is already (from our POV), formulating a strategy on how best to deal with her.
Third, and most importantly, you must keep this in mind: One of the biggest problems with television shows and movies is the fact that–due to editing, time constraints and other matters–we never see the entire picture. There’s a reason why movie and television adaptations of novels don’t always work.
We’re seeing a sliver of what’s going on, and has Jill and others have repeatedly pointed out (check out Jennie and Duncan’s blogs), there is a lot more going on that we have not seen. Plus, the treatment of the patients on this show didn’t end when the show wrapped; it is still ongoing.
Why Selma wasn’t properly trained? I understand she had to be fired, but why she didn’t have the training?
Selma was in the wrong period. I was shocked to see her do that no matter what Kari Ann did. I know she was acting on her instinct and she at least admitted that but still..not right. Kari Ann may be rude and combative with the group and therapists but let’s think about everything she has been through first. It’s a total defense mechanism and nothing more. It’s how she has learned to be..a learned behavior. Kudos to all the therapists and staff at PRC for committing to her through everything.
THIS IS SO STUPID…
I sympayhize with kari ann and her history of abuse and things that have happened to her but real talk that chick was puttin up a childish fit for 15 days into that treatment and selma was doing everything should could to be calm and when that chick THREW the vase at her then that was it. I dont like how the family therapist CLAIMS that from the video that kari ann DID NOT throw the vase when in fact she DID.
KARI ANN IS A BIG KID… Shes wounded and needs help yes. HOWEVER that is no excuse and i woulda sent her home…
Also… Kari Ann said she was tired of all the “GHETTO” people in the house…. SHE WAS REFERRING TO SELMA… TO BE HONEST WHAT SHE REALLY WANTED TO SAY WAS THAT SHE WAS TIRED OF THAT ~^*#^!#^)_%!&&$~)% STAFF MEMBER..
Are you people stupid? It doesn’t matter what somebody does. There’s a difference between defending yourself and grabbing someone’s hair as they are walking away. Selma herself accepted responsibility for her actions because she knew what she did was wrong. Excessive force is not permissible under the law. Ever. I’m not saying Selma wouldn’t have a case against Kari Ann but they’d both ultimately be faulted for (+*%&(%!$)@*&+# ault. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
Are you people stupid? It doesn’t matter what somebody does. There’s a difference between defending yourself and grabbing someone’s hair as they are walking away. Selma herself accepted responsibility for her actions because she knew what she did was wrong. Excessive force is not permissible under the law. Ever. I’m not saying Selma wouldn’t have a case against Kari Ann but Kari Ann would easily be able to counter-sue, and at best they would both be faulted. At worst, only Selma would because she was the professional and Kari Ann was the patient. Two wrongs don’t make a right. Any professional that lays their hands on a client, patient, student whatever beyond what is necessary to defend themselves is going to get nailed for it. End of story.
For everyone who watched this episode after selma was fire KA was walking around smiling that big doofy smile
As a former psych tech, this show is all about ratings. Kari Ann DID throw the vase at her. You can see her physically pick up the vase and throw it. It was not a toss of her arm.
Kari Ann should have had a contract placed before her after the first week of non-compliance. Also, Selma would have been fired with or without the cameras, BUT Kari Ann would have been either sent home herself or had things taken away from her. We would have put her in isolation and only let her out for group and meals.
The way this was handled was realistic for Selma but terribly unrealistic for Kari Ann.
Also, Selma should never have been allowed to be a tech on the show without the proper training. That was a very poor judgment call.
If this kind of circus continues in the next episode, you have lost a viewer.
KARI ANN IS A RACIST LITTLE PUNK AND YOU ALL SHOULD BE READY FOR A LAW SUIT BY SELMA ! THE TAPE PROVES THAT KARI ANN DISRESPECTS AFRICAN AMERICAN PEOPLE FROM THE WAY SHE SPEAKS AT THEM ! ! EXAMPLES ” YOU PEOPLE AND I DON’T LIKE ALL THESE GETTO PEOPLE HERE ” PROVES THAT KARI ANN IS RACIST !! HOW NICE FOR DR. DREW TO BRING IN A WHITE WOMAN ! KARI ANN ALSO DISRESPECTS MODEL NICOLE NARAIN WHEN SHE SPEAKS AT HER SHE LOOKS DOWN. SHE CALLS AFRICAN AMERICAN WOMEN #!(~&`^#_`~)#^$+$ ES!! IF THIS IS A REAL SHOW AND NOT JUST ACTORS TRYING TO GET THEIR CAREERS BACK ON TRACK YOU FOLKS WILL HAVE A LAW SUIT SOON ! ! ALSO KARI ANN SHOULD HAVE BEEN ARRESTED FOR THROWING AN OBJECT AT SELMA TO INFLICT BODILY HARM AKA _)+)$+^@`$@@&() ULT WITH A DEADLY WEAPON. THIS IS A CHARGE AND SELMA HAS ALL THE PROOF SHE NEEDS !! KARI ANN YOU ARE A R A C I S T ! !
It was weird that Kari Ann kept threatening to leave, and then next thing you know, she’s signing a contract to be able to stay. Weird.
Jill and Dr. Drew… you broke my heart! Although you have the degrees and all the training it looks as though the smartest one there is Kari Ann! She has manipulated you two to the max. She acts childishly, irresponsibly and has indicated that she is racist and she’s got you not only backing her up but lying for her to the rest of the group as well. Stevie Wonder himself could have seen that she actually threw that vase at Selma! So Selma, the “ghetto person” trying her best to do her job, a job that YOU say she wasn’t properly trained for has to be made an example of by being fired by you. But Kari Ann’s behavior as a patient dosen’t warrant expulsion? Wow! Just goes to show…with such enroads this country has made with racial issues, especially with the election of Obama, some things just never change. Since Selma probably will never get her job back she at least deserves an apology for your narrow-mindedness. My respect for you two has totally diminished.
The stars win again.. oh dear, it’s all so unfair, and obvious. No matter how damaged that Kari is, she’s been beating up on poor Selma from day one, pushing her around, treating her like her personal maid. And because Kari gets the bad girl ratings and “it was caught on camera,” Selma is out, and Kari Angelic is in.
As a former floor manager for a mental health program, I am aghast that this was allowed to happen. You left both Kari Ann and Selma in an unsafe situation and then threw Selma under the bus for your negligence.
First of all, while I don’t know the laws in California, in PA it is illegal to have anyone on the floor in a treatment facility who has not been trained in a three point restraint or the proper ways to escort and deal with patients who are acting out, let alone have a floor manager who is not WELL versed in that. You’re asking for someone to get hurt. Second of all, Selma should have never been left alone with her. That’s just standard protocol. If a patient in a facility is getting out of control, two staff members should be there at all times for the patient’s safety and the staff member’s safety. Kari Ann threw a vase at her, anyone with eyes could have seen that. Selma did not drag her down the hall by her hair. She grabbed her shoulders to escort her back into her room, her hand got caught in her hair, she pulled it out and put her grip back onto her shoulders.
While that wasn’t the optimal decision (in reality, two staff members should have been at her sides to walk Kari Ann back into her room) it was the best given the situation that YOU put Selma in, putting her alone on the floor, with no training, with a patient who enjoys escalating situations.
Kari Ann absolutely deserves compassion and she does not deserve to be thrown out. If throwing a vase was the worst thing I’d ever seen at a treatment facility, I’d call it Christmas. She is obviously a very traumatized young woman, but at no point has it been televised that someone has shown her that her actions have consequences. If she is violently reacting to situations that way, at the very least she needs to be transferred to facility to deal with those violent reactions.
What will it take for you to run your floor with some semblance of safety and regard for it’s inhabitants, both patients and professionals? Does someone have to get their eyes scratched out or thrown down the steps?
My .02:
Kari Ann didn’t pick up the vase. But it most certainly did not fall on the floor! She shoved it off the table with such force that it flew into the wall on the opposite side of the hallway. It is clear that she was aiming for Selma. She very nearly hit her. Selma ought to be defended on this point. Kari Ann also deserved to go.
That said, the cries of racism are unfounded. What Selma did WAS ghetto. Doesn’t matter if you’re white, black, Asian or Hispanic. Being “ghetto” has nothing to do with skin color. It’s about a lack of class.
Pulling hair is ghetto.
Graffiti is ghetto.
Duct tape on your car is ghetto.
Saying “irregardless” is ghetto.
Kari Ann’s weave is ghetto.
Perhaps I’m limited by own perspective. As a white man, I’m not the most sensitive to claims of anti-black racism. I grew up in North Richmond, CA. It was totally normal for us kids to call each other ghetto, without regard to skin color.
But for the sake of argument, let’s say ghetto is a racially charged term & Kari Ann is a racist. Is this grounds to exclude her from the program? If so, why isn’t she excluded for using foul language? For making obscene gestures? For calling Selma a “retard”?
Shoot, I meant to say “If violence is not tolerated, Kari Ann also deserved to go.”
Jill you seem like such sweet person. who obviously cares about people and is committed to her job. I think you are absoultely right, there is a lot of things we don’t get to see on camera. I myself wouldn’t mind having you as a therapist if I was in therapy(Laughs).I wouldn’t even mind having you as a friend. I also think in many ways I can definetly relate to Kari Ann. I always have a smile on me all the time no matter what. Even when people make fun of me. And no matter how I feel I can’t get rid of it.
For the record: The video we were shown was from a different angle and you could not see that she had picked up the vase. From the angle we saw it really did look as though she knocked it over. The blog interviewer talks to me before the episode airs, so I haven’t seen the episode yet when I do the interview (plus, I have to recall events that happened back in April when we filmed the show). Now, after seeing the episode and the new camera angle, it is clear she did throw the vase, and for that mistake I sincerely apologize. However, it is still unacceptable for a staff member to antagonize or put their hands on a patient, no matter how argumentative and frustrating they are. To watch Selma go was very very difficult. She was well liked by all of us. To %$+$+&+^#**&&#^ uage any concerns: Selma and I are good. We’ve mended any rifts that existed. I hope this clears things up about erroneous statements made.
I think its some bull Selma got let go!!! Kari Ann should have got a beat down because Selma was just defending her self
okay, this is the first time I have ever watched this show and it is just outright stupid. Who does that swamp thing Kari Ann think she is? I just can’t beleive Dr. Drew would terminate Selma for a self defense measure. Anyone in their right mind would protect themselves if they were in a threating situation. This show is just ridiculous!!! Kari Ann gets a slap on the wrist and is asked to rejoin the group, while Selma is fired. Now WTF is that all about? Kari Ann says she threw the vase at the wall, now the vase did hit the wall, but that was not her target. I mean what would have happened if Selma was actually hit by the vase, would Dr. Drew still have let her go for rightfully protecting herself. I mean if it were me, I would have made it count, that beast would not have had a strand of hair left on her head, especially if I was getting fired over it. I think it is racial and this is the first and last time I will be watching this show!
I think Selma getting dismissed was a bit much….She was defending her-self. If someone through some toward you wouldn’t you react??? It is clear Kari Ann is full of BS. I Think she should have got more than her hair pulled.
It’s messed up that selma was fired!! But selma was inappropiate. Selma is suppose to be there to help the sex addicts not irritate them more. Selma should have never pulled kari’s hair even though Kari deserved it.
It’s messed up that selma was fired!! But selma was inappropiate. Selma is suppose to be there to help the sex addicts not irritate them more.Selm is very incapable of doing her job. Selma should have never pulled kari’s hair even though Kari deserved it. Nobody’s ghetto but Kari-Ann.Iwas so glad nicole let Kari have it.
It’s messed up that selma was fired!! But selma was inappropiate. Selma is suppose to be there to help the sex addicts not irritate them more.Selm is very incapable of doing her job. Selma should have never pulled kari’s hair even though Kari deserved it. Nobody’s ghetto but Kari-Ann.I was so glad nicole let Kari have it.
it’s quite simple really: both kari ann and selma were wrong, but selma should have acted the part of the “adult” for which she was hired and expected to fulfill. It doesn’t matter what kari ann did, Selma should not have touched her. as a high school teacher, i am fully aware of how violent, unruly, and outrageous children can become, especially when provoked (even in the slightest way, or a way in which a healthy adult would deem insignificant), and kari ann is just that: a child. dr. drew explained it best when he said that because kari ann’s addictive behaviors began at age 13, her emotional development stopped at that age; basically, she acts like a teenager, and all adults know that teenage behavior can be extremely erratic. so, yes, in the healthy adult world, kari ann was wrong for the way she acted, but she’s not a healthy adult, and her behavior became worse when selma provoked her in a way that no adult should ever provoke a child (or in this case, an addict who behaves like a child). selma should have known better. she was aggressively standing in front of kari ann, body-blocking her, puffing up her chest and showing intrusive body language. when kari ann stopped in the hallway, before turning to throw the vase, selma’s entire physical demeanor was aggressive; it was clear that she was getting angry and letting kari ann’s immaturity get the best of her. this is not to say that kari ann was right, by any means, to act the way she did at that moment, or in the past. she has been awful, especially to selma. however, it became painfully obvious that selma was not right for the job. any adult who works with children/teens, or any healthy adult who works with addicts, should be able to handle the negative emotional behaviors and/or violent outbursts that may occur. and i’m sorry, but waiting until someone has their back turned AND THEN pulling their hair? that IS ghetto. racist or not, we all know it’s true that the first thing black women go for when they fight white women is their hair. it’s a fact, and selma just proved it. deal with it.
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